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What does the future hold for the Apple Cup? A discussion about a potential move of the Apple Cup game to Qwest Field in Seattle has created quite a stir of controversy in the last two weeks. Follow this story by clicking on a the following links.
Jim Sterk
Economic Impact Part I.
Economic Impact Part II.
After reading the reports, what are your general thoughts regarding the move? In regards to a topic we discussed in this course, what is WSU's social responsibility to the city of Pullman in regards to athletic teams? Is their a social contract? Why or why not?
Like many WSU students, I was obviously very dissapointed in hearing that the Apple Cup may not be held in Pullman in the next few years. The Apple Cup is the one game that keeps us Cougar fans going through the terrible seasons that we will undoubtedly have. But on the other hand, I do understand that their is an economic downturn and WSU needs to do everything they can in order to save/make money. I believe we are the poorest school in the PAC-10 and this proposal shows that. I have heard that moving the game to Quest Field will give WSU at least one million dollars, so in terms of money, the move seems inevitable. But on the other hand, Jim Sterk needs to look at what this move is going to do to small businesses in Pullman. Most of these businesses depend on three things for survival: Mom's weekend, Dad's Weekend, and Apple Cup. Small businesses rely on the thousands of people who come up to Pullman for Apple Cup, and without it, I do not think that they will be able to make it. So before we look at moving Apple Cup, I think that we need to keep these small businesses in mind.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, in no way shape or form am I pushing, supporting or happy with the move of the apple cup. Too many people will be hurt. First off, the community of Pullman will be hurt financially. And anyone that says bringing the non-conference game that is usually played in Seattle, back to Pullman, will offset the financial strain the community will take is crazy. In losing the apple cup, Pullman loses not just one day, but four days (Thursday, Friday Saturday and Sunday) of hotels, food, beer ect. The Non-conference game that comes in will not be a Wisconsin, or Ohio State, or even a Boise State. The only schools that will come to play in Pullman would be any D-1AA school like Eastern, or Port. St. Maybe a tiny school like SMU or UTEP, would come but nothing bigger than that, at least not until the stadium is finished (On hold right now). For these non-conference games, you would not see even close to the amount of travel that you would see in an apple cup. The non-conference games usually fill up with locals that come see a win, or take their kids to a game, so that wipes out most of the hotel and beer. Plus the schools that come here most likely don’t have a huge traveling following, thus reducing the hotel and food even more. In this economic time, it could hurt the community more than most people think. As far as the football team, I think traveling every other year 5 hours to play a home game, when the away team gets to sleep in their own bed and only have a 10 minute drive to the game, is a very huge advantage. I do believe the game will be 50/50 with fans in the stands; however playing a home game in Seattle in the winter is enormously different than playing a game in Pullman in the winter. With this move the team loses the atmosphere that is Pullman on College football Saturdays. Both of these compiled with losing a recruiting weekend late in the year I feel is almost too much to move the apple cup. But, from the other side of things, $2 million is very tough to turn down. The Athletics Department needs the money, in order to counter the increased tuition and be able to cover for the scholarships. Also they have to day compiled $16 million of the estimated $40 million needed to complete the stadium renovation. With WSU having the smallest budget and the smallest donation revenue in the Pac-10, this move might take some strain off of the Athletic Department. I personally hope this doesn’t happen, but I also would understand if it does, as long as whatever happens is in the best interest of the University.
ReplyDeleteFirst off I would like to say I do understand what this rivalry game means and the emotion that is involved to so many. Being not from this state and never following either of these teams until last season, makes it kind of hard for me to relate to some of you who have been through this for generations. I do not want to compare rivalries, but being from an area where Big Ten schools are the featured attraction, I can quite understand the meaning this has for all of you and I am sorry if it happens. I do have to say economically for the University it does make sense. That is a lot of money to be earned from this. With the economy the way it is any extra cash should be welcomed. Plus if the budget goes down to far, it is unfair to have to cut other programs that other students rely on. The extra home game, I believe would generate some revenue, but I guess I never really paid attention to how many people were at a game depending on when it was played, so I can not say how much. Now community involvement is entirely different. Obviously this game means so much to the community in more than a financial sense. It brings people together, shows pride in the university and all that stuff. What I am trying to say really is that the university does owe all the wonderful alumni, future alumni, community supporters and everyone else something for the years of support, money and other contributions that have been offered. In the end though, this is a lose-lose situation. Someone will be pissed off no matter what the choice is, be it a fan, alumni, community member, the athlete who's program got cut (if the budget falls to low), someone will end up on the short end of this stick.
ReplyDeleteI and everyone who might agree with me realize the potential economic benefit this decision might have for our Athletic Department, but feel that these financial gains will be a short-term gain, long-term loss. We see that the net gain of this move would be around $1 million, the local businesses will suffer greatly, as will the Athletic Department in the long run. This decision will put great strain on a community that like our entire nation, is struggling, the same community that is the backbone of the same department that is seemingly disregarding their loyalty and selling out to everything that this rivalry stands on.
ReplyDeleteThe impact of home field advantage is not being emphasized enough, as cougcalf 505 mentioned, yes the attendance will be proportionate but the advantage of travel, local coverage, and trying to make the same trip that has been a road trip for our team feel like a neutral site is complete bullshit. After 6+ straight road games for the apple cup, the rivalry will become a joke, local recruits will opt out of going to WSU as the biggest game of the year is never played at home, the Pullman business community will suffer many losses to the point where people won't be able to tell the difference between Colfax and Pullman. My only hope is that Sterk has the intestinal fortitude to make a decision that doesn't bail him out in the short term rather than turn his back on a community that supported his department and watch it deteriorate in their absence from the Apple Cup experience.
GO COUGS!
As I mentioned in the Society blog, the Apple Cup needs to stay in Pullman. It's no different then having conference football games at you opponent's home field. The name Apple Cup was given to show pride and an opportunity to beat a team in your region. Taking this game away from both homestands would ruin that prupose. The socail responsibility of WSU is to keep the Apple Cup in Pullman. It maintains the essence of vistors and residents to come together to watch football together. However, I argue that the social contract is to have the Apple Cup at Quest Field. It would create more money opportunities for both schools. But keep the Apple Cup in Pullman!
ReplyDeleteMore than likely, Apple Cup will be moved to Qwest Field for the next six years. Hopefully, after that, it can return to home field advantage. It is not something that I feel is a good move because a lot of support from Pullman, the Palouse, Eastern Washington, students, alumni, and anyone else involved with Cougar Football and WSU Athletics. With rivalry games, it is about protecting the home field, and the move of Apple Cup to Qwest Field loses home field advantage. I don’t blame WSU and UW in considering this deal. It is an economically ideal move. WSU Athletics and the city of Pullman have a close knit relationship. Both sides thrive on the success of each other. There is a lot of money that comes into the athletic department from ticket revenue, sponsorship revenue, donations, etc. When people come into town for athletic events, they spend money that benefits the multiple businesses in Pullman. Many people have stated that sales have mightily increased during Apple Cup weekend as compared to other home game weekends. As per agreement between WSU Athletics and the Pullman Chamber of Commerce, WSU needs to have five home football games. The move of Apple Cup to Qwest Field and return of the Seattle game to Pullman will still comply with the five home football games agreement. WSU Athletics needs to highly consider the effect of this move on the city of Pullman. Also, whatever decision WSU makes, it would change the image most people hold of WSU Athletics.
ReplyDeleteIt is looking pretty promising that the Apple Cup will be at Quest field for the next six years. It is sad that our economy is in such a bad situation, that we have to resort to awful ideas like this. I understand the money differential is remarkable in terms of how much more our athletic department will recieve compared to when it is in Pullman. But people need to take into account the amount of business that the local companies are losing with this move. Instead of one of the biggest most profit weekends of all year, it is going to be a ghost town because Im assuming everyone will go to the game at Quest. The reason that I am most upset is because of the tradition that we will be leaving behind. THis has been a game that everyone looks forward to all year, for bragging rights and whatnot. It will not be the same if it is not played in Pullman every other year. I understand that the ticket situation at quest will be 50/50 but still, it is a home game for uw for the next six years. It sucks and the real problem is that it is looking like it is going to get passed. shoot.
ReplyDeleteThe Social Responsibility that WSU has to Pullman is to keep the Apple Cup in the respective cities because it gives an identity to the smaller city Pullman. Seattle is a large Metropolitan Area that has many features that are accommodating to tourists. Pullman on the other hand really has nothing except the University, it may have a few concerts with big names but Apple Cup is a main reason people come to Pullman (who don't go to school here). The rivalry brings great tradition between the state schools, money should not be the ultimate deciding factor in this proposal because down the line it can end up being a bad situation when no one is showing up to the game at Qwest field.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a fan of the proposed move. The second article brings up good points regarding the amount of money local businesses will lose here in Pullman. There are many factors to be considered, I feel sorry for Sterk to be honest. Qwest Field is not a neutral site as they are making it out to be. 300 miles from Pullman, 4 miles from UW campus. We won't be looking at home field advantage for awhile, which we all know is extremely important in rivalry games. In the end, the deciding factor is money. If the money is there Sterk will take it, unfortunately that's just the way it is with the economy right now. Years and years of tradition will be lost. WSU has a social responsibility to keep the game in Pullman for businesses, fans, players, and tradition, hopefully they will work something out.
ReplyDeleteJim Sterk killed the Quest Field Idea because both schools could not come to a compromise as to how many seats would be allotted to each university. His responsibility to the University is to look at every possible option to improve WSU athletics and the University as a whole. I do not fault him for exploring this option, and I feel that he has made the correct decision in keeping the AC in Pullman. The social responsibility is not on the WSU Alum and fans to open their pocket books. WSU is last in both donations received and athletic budget. Not only are they last, the 9th team in the league in both these categories (Oregon State), is almost double in both categories. The stability, security and success of WSU athletics is now placed on the University to search options to expand their donation base, and the WSU alum and fans to pony up and give what they can to athletics. If 10,000 people give $100 a year (.27 cents a day) to Athletics, the school will receive an extra $1 million dollars a year. Not a very unreasonable thought.
ReplyDeleteI feel that the Apple Cup should not be moved to Seattle's Quest Field. That would be a huge mistake in regards of the WSU vs UW being a rivalry. If it was moved it would have created a home field advantage for UW because Quest Field is a few miles from the UW campus, in comparison to the 270 miles away it is for WSU students. WSU has a social contract with its students and athletic teams to allow a good atmosphere and school spirit and support for the game. If the game were not held in WSU every other year I feel that it would be a disadvantage for not only the team to be away from home but it would not allow the same opportunity for all students to attend the game. It would be held in Seattle very far away from Spokane where a good amount of students are from. Every other year Spokane fans have the opportunity to come watch the Cougars. If the game was moved to Seattle it would not have the same vibe as it would being held in Martin Stadium.
ReplyDeleteI've heard and read some articles about having Apple Cup at Quest Field until 2015. I would really miss Apple Cup in Martin Stadium and students would dissapoint that there is no more Apple Cup in Pullman until they graduate. Freshmen might not experience our Apple Cup home game like last year.I think the Quest Field is kind of Huskie's home field. It might give them more athletic opportunities. Supporters would be different than Pullman even it is our homegame. However, Sterk says that the proposed six-year deal would provide each school with in excess of $10 million more than the approximate $3.1million each school would make from continuing to hold the Apple Cup at their respective campus stadiums from 2010-15. I think it is just for 6years. Washington STate's athletic budget of is easily the smallest in the Pacific-10 Conference. If we get more budget, then we can have some funds for stadium improvements. It means that we can have better stadium and more seats where can have more fans and others. Our school would be better look with better stadium. Even though we will miss few great rivalry games for few years, I think it would help our school to become one of the best crowd stadium in Pacific-10 Conference.
ReplyDeleteThe idea behind the move to the apple cup is great, but I can see some problems in the future. The extra revenue goes to the stadium upgrades, right? But there are always snags along the way and I bet people will lose jobs anyway. Plus, I don't see the big deal with laying a few people off. There are lots of bodies in the athletic department, surely some of them can be done without. Plus there is so much talent coming from interns and younger professionals that they can be paid less and still keep things running smooth. I say the responsibility of the AD is to the fanbase, not a few buddies in the athletic dpartment. Keep the game here and suffer through the hard times.
ReplyDeleteWhen I heard about the Apple Cup possibly moving to Qwest Field I was shocked and devestated. First losing Tony Bennett, then losing the biggest game of the year in the Palouse to the Westside. I was difficult to bear. An Apple Cup always on the Westside would not have the same atmosphere or gratification if the Cougars were to win. Even though the Cougs and the Huskies would get the same amount of tickets for the fans it would still feel like the Huskies have home field advantage. Its on the westside and that is Husky Territory. The atmosphere in Pullman the weekend of the Apple Cup is magical and there is no other feeling like beating your rivals on your home turf. A win on the westside would not be the same. I understand the economy is horrible and Sterk is trying to find opportunities for revenue where ever he can but all the revenues would go to upgrading Martin Stadium, not people jobs. I just hope for the best and the Apple Cup continues to stay in Cougar Country every other year.
ReplyDeleteThe current decision is a difficult one. and it is obvious that fans will only look at one side and want the apple cup to remain at the grounds of Washington state and university of Washington. I personally am taking no preference to either side, but as I man on business I totally understand the move if it was made. Financially we are doing poorly! And is this time of economical crisis matters are getting worse. For the survival of a business risk taking and extreme decisions need to be made, this sounds like one of them. If WSU doesn’t receive more money then other programs will suffer because of this and WSU has the responsibility to these programs to ensure its survival and continuation. The move would only be temporary and in time fans will get over it. At the same time cougar fans will protest, but then they need to ask themselves are they really "cougar fans" or just "football cougar fans". The real fan would want a decision that suits the best interest of the whole university.
ReplyDeleteFor a sport management major a situation like this creates quite a conflict of interests. On one hand from a monetary standpoint the move makes a lot of sense due to the struggling economy and the fact that WSU is way behind most other schools in terms of fund raising. From a Coug standpoint it is very difficult because in my mind there is nowhere west of the mountains that you can call a neutral site. While it would raise money for the school it would have a significant negative impact on the community of Pullman. I think that Jim Sterk would not be a responsible leader in the community if he allowed the Apple Cup to move and hurt the local economy and sense of pride that almost all who live in Pullman have.
ReplyDeleteWhat means more to the University: $$$$ or everything else the Apple Cup has represented? I say that Pullman has meant so much to WSU Athletics and vice versa. If the game was moved to Qwest Field, the money made will make a dent in Pullman local businesses. Basically the wealth is distributed differently, not to mention the loss of faith in Cougar fans and alumni. Would that be responsible of the Athletic Department? I say absolutely not. Pullman has supported WSU on so many levels, it would be rather snide of the department to not return the favor. On an emotional level, I look forward to every single Martin Stadium Apple Cup. We would also lose that competitive advantage by playing in Pullman. I understand Jim Sterk's statement in at least considering his options, especially when money presents itself. Its not necessarily wrong to make a profit, but when major compromises would evidently make negative impacts on so many levels, the term "greedy" would be an understatement.
ReplyDeleteI really dont think WSU has any reponsibility to the city of pullman, yeah it is nice when the apple cup comes here so that businesses prosper, but WSU doesnt have to do anything for the city. If the apple cup had been played in Seattle every year and WSU pulled in about a million and a half a year from it, I think we would of jumped at the chance if it had been a more neutral site, but as for the city of Pullman, they do make lots of money on home game days, but that is a benefit for having a college in your city
ReplyDeleteI disagree with the statement above by Wes. I do believe that WSU has a responsibility to the city of Pullman. This city profits on football game days and has ever since the beginning. The city has supported WSU athletics and has given back to the university in more ways than one. WSU should honor that and try as hard as they can to keep as many athletic events in Pullman as they can, to accommodate all the people of the city of Pullman that have supported WSU over the years.
ReplyDeleteWSU does have some responsibility to the city of Pullman. The city supports WSU and it's goals and does its best to maintain a good relationship with the university. At the same time, the state of athletics at WSU is struggling financially and the university has to do what's best for it in order to keep athletics above water. When I heard of the potential move, I was at first disappointed. However, it was "free money" that the athletic department really couldn't pass up. We're last in the conference in operating budget and fundraising revenues, and we need to take the money any way we can get it.
ReplyDeleteThe Apple Cup to Quest field proposal has been shut down as most students were informed via email once the decision was made. The WSU Athletic Director, Jim Sterk said in a news release "that agreement could not be reached on how to maintain a neutral-site atmosphere at the stadium just south of downtown Seattle and six miles from Washington's Husky Stadium." I think this is a clear indicator that Sterk realized the scrutiny that his decision would be under if he decided to take the Apple Cup away from Pullman and backpedaled. Did he honestly think that assuring dividing the crowd 50/50 Cougars and Huskies would make Quest field "a neutral-site"? It is comforting to know that the tradition and integrity of the game remains intact, but this attempted compromise of everything rivalry games stand for wreaks of disaster in the future for our Athletic Department.
ReplyDeleteI feel like the Apple Cup proposal at Quest Field as its ups and downs. I personally don’t feel like they should move the game just for economic reasons. I know the money would help out the University, but the move would not only hurt the community here in Pullman but would cause uproar with students and boosters. Also the city of Pullman and its business's rely on the Apple Cup for a majority of their revenue during the years that it is here. With the move it would hurt these businesses and possibly force them to shut their doors. Next the Huskies asked for 40,000 tickets for their season ticket holders which would be more than half the capacity of Quest Field which is an absolute joke because it would be an unfair advantage both with the amount of fans and the location being 4 miles from their campus. So as a member of this University i think that Jim Sterk has an obligation to do what’s right for this City and keep the Apple Cup here in Pullman for all Cougs and the businesses to enjoy.
ReplyDeleteI think a decision to move the Apple cup to seattle would be a poor decision. The advantage and feel of holding it on the campuses would be gone, which takes away from the feel. And honestly...moving it to Seattle would not benefit the Cougars too much and would disenfranchise fans from the Eastside.
ReplyDeleteWSU does have a social responsibility to keep the game in Pullman. Pullman has been very supportive and helpful from services rendered to acceptance of new people into the community every year. The financial withdrawl of the Applecup could hurt some buisness and affect many companies negatively. Due to their cooperation and the good will shown by the town to the campus, I do believe there is a social contract.